THE NEXT EPISODE IN MY FOAL SAGA

[Nevenka van Niekerk]

I am really starting to enjoy little Faith now, she is a honey. Starting to lead around without too much resistance. Had her feet done and she was an absolute angel. Now what age is the suggested age for weaning? And what is the best method? Some people say immediate weaning other say gradual weaning. I just don't know what to do. I have 2 mares and a donkey I want to put in with mother and baby eventually. So I have gradually started doing this. I think the weaning will just be easier if baby shares the field with at least one other person she knows. I have since put the 2year old in with them and even though she is not too fond of the foal, she hardly pays her any attention and mum manages to keep her away with not much effort. Yesterday I tried with the 3 year old pony. It's all of 12hh ,but an absolute little devil. She just went for the foal and chased her , I hate to think what she would have done if she caught her. What really upset me was the fact that I can imagine how traumatised mom must have been as she could not run fast enough to protect her baby. I am truly shattered that I did this to her. So now what? Do I put the 2 year old in with them and let them form their own little herd until weaning? Please if someone has experience wih this, please help me. I am really very concerned. (Debbie?)

[Debbie Marshall]

You are going about it the right way it is just so unfortunate that so many horses have no idea what foals are.

Continue trying to build a herd around her using as many horses as possible. This will have to be a trial and error process until you find the right ones but as long as the process is done with care and attention no harm should come to anyone.

Weaning before 6 months is barbaric in my opinion unless of course there are extenuating circumstances but I prefer to leave mum and babe together until about 7 months. In the wild the mare would be in foal again and she would do the weaning herself from about 8 months. Sometimes the foal is draining the mare to much to leave them together beyond this and yet other times mum copes just fine.

Once the herd is established and the baby is comfortable with the aunts and uncles you can just take mummy away. Preferably far away, out of sight and if possible out of earshot too. It is kinder by far to do it and get it done with than it is to half do it, undo it and redo it - if you get what I mean.

The two year old is a great start but she herself would still look for and older person for comfort and guidance so have another look at who you have available to do the baby sitting job. It may well be that the ones you think wouldn't - will and vice versa. Do you have an older mare perhaps - better still if she has already foaled at some stage?

[Nevenka van Niekerk]

No I don't, I have a group of bolshy geldings, a 2 year old, a 3 year old and a 3 year old Jenny. So really don't know what to do. Will they not just become friends and the 2 year old able to turn to the mummy for comfort? Or will she always keep them at a distance? It does not even help getting another mare as I suppose they need some stability. It does not help me keeping this horse for a month and then ripping her away again. A friend has a mum and colt of about the same age. He wants to drop the colt off with me, but I honestly can't face the responsibility of having a colt with the mares. The last thing I want is another surprise foal. Do I take the little problem pony in on a lead rein so she cannot chase till she is more used to the foal? I really don't know what to do? As I just have all these young fillies and a group of much older geldings I also don't know whether they should all be mixed up together?

[Debbie Marshall]

The more diverse the herd the better and some geldings make great uncles. The colt could cause problems for you later.

I have an older mare who has foaled before of about 13hh who I would be happy to lend to you.......there is also her son who is now a 4 year old gelding who has spent time with my foals who could come along too. Neither is a great eater and they could stay for..............................and then come home when you are ready.

[Alex]

Hey you guys!
Not sure whether you have considered putting Bobs with baby, when he was last with youngsters he was very good. He takes his uncle duties very seriously though.
Just to let you know I wouldn't mind.

[Debbie Marshall]

The Bobster is very like his brothers Mag and Wizz. They are very strong disciplinarians and work exceptionally well with colts but seem to lack the tact and diplomacy that fillies and younger foals need. They are like bulls in China shops and while they mean no harm the foals and the fillies find them rather daunting. He would do well with the two year olds but not so well with the younger ones.

Just my opinion!!!!!!

[Nevenka van Niekerk]

Thanks for the offer Debbie. Will think about it. I am trying to think which of my geldings would be suitable. I have a very big old Softie and then an Arab who has only been gelded for a few months, but he seems very timid and moves off easily when the other horses just look at him funny. I am trying to think which of them would be respectful enough of the mare to move off without challenging her. I think my boy is too playful and inquisitive. I doubt he will do anything as at the club the weanlings had broken through to his paddock a few times and he was more than happy to oblige and look after them. But now something else.... Diversity within the herd. Does this mean at home that you also mix your geldings and mares up in the fields? I know a lot of people do, but have not ever. Does it not cause a problem if one of the mares go into season? Pardon my ignorance, I am a bit of a dodo. Have always just had my horses and I have never had one of each sex before. Because I have been toying with the idea because the young mares are getting a bit cocky. The 2 and 3 year old have been alone for 8 months and you can see they have not had adult influence in a while (they think they rule the roost) Not that I mind, they must get on with it, but do you think that they will benefit by maybe mixing them into my herd of geldings? Then putting one or two of the quieter ones in with mum and baby? That could be the ideal solution. But worried as they are so small that they might get hurt. But I suppose as long as they don't look for trouble they will be fine and if they do, they should get whats coming to them. Thanks for all your help Debbie. You are like a walking encyclopedia.

[Debbie Marshall]

I always mix my herd around the youngsters. It gives them a good balance as they would get in the wild and there is nothing that a human can do to replace herd discipline.

When mixing camps the larger the herd the better as this dilutes petty problems and always leaves somebody for somebody to pally up to. If you put 2 geldings with one mare then you will have one very lonely and unhappy horse. There will always be one top dog who will probably take all the mares but thats ok. It is as it would be in a natural herd.

Your two years olds will benefit hugely from the discipline and altho you don't mind them being big stuff their personalities will be rounder with the herd discipline.

Your big old softie sounds perfect and as for the youngster you would have to try and see how it goes.
I think your boy would probably be a perfect uncle.

In these herds with the youngsters you will sometimes see some harsh discipline and be tempted to intervene but as long as nobody is being chased incessantly and nobody is getting hurt it is as it should be. You will end up with a really super balanced youngster in the end.

[Nevenka van Niekerk]

Thanks Debbie back to the drawing board. I am doing trial runs at the moment to see who can go with who. But all the horses seem to chase the little donkey. Why would this be? The foals that grew up with her are fine, but the moment you put an adult horse with her they chase her like crazy. I feel so sorry for her, because she is such a timid little creature. This is all so complicated.

[Debbie Marshall]

Horses are mostly scared of donkeys the first time they see them. Even tho your horses are now used to the sight of the donkey they probably still perceive her as a threat. Leave your little donk with one friend - maybe the young pony who chased the foal (if it works) and then see who can go with the foal without the donkey to worry about aswell.

Organising the right herds can be a complicated issue - we sometimes sit for hours trying to work out who can go with who - avoiding games over wire fences and making sure the colts are nowhere near the ladies. But you know what - neither you nor we would really have it any other way - so see the funny side of your eccentricity and accept!!!

Have fun!!!!!!!

[Nevenka van Niekerk]

Oh man. Moved the donkey in with mum and foal last night. She is the perfect aunty. I don't think horses perceive donkeys as anything even remotely the same species as them. I think the donkey might as well be a cow or sheep for all they care. But I put her in the paddock and my goodness, the foal thought she was the bees' knees. Thought the donkey was her toy. The donkey is only 3, but so patient. Mum didn't even look up. She was completely at ease with baby playing with Hosannah. So I am soooo happy about that. But the donkey used to be in the field with the 2 fillies and they all get along famously. Now the naughty chasing pony is very upset that her friend is gone. I would still love to have all the mares together. But I am now going to leave donkey and co. together till after weaning. I will put Flynn and Egg with the 2 wayward ladies to see if they can receive some discipline. Then after weaning when all can return to normal and the foal is older I will put the mares back where they belong and the same with the geldings.

Unless of course I see that bonds have formed in their new groups then I will leave as is or try and put the pair bond back into the herd. But loving it. Learning so much. Baby is becoming a pro at leading now and is being so good. A month is so short, but it is so amazing to see how much they grow and learn in such a short time. Loving them to bits.

[Debbie Marshall]

That sounds very cool.

It is always a joy to watch them grow and learn and when there is more than one - watching the different personalities as they develop is................a treasure, I guess.

[Elbrus Ourtaev]

Hi Nevenka,

My experience with foals has been to leave them with their mom until the mom herself weans the foal off at about 1 year. From about 6 months, we ride the mare and the foal stays behind in the herd and the moms dont stress too much. If you are on a farm, let the foal ride along with you. They learn so much by doing that, from going over poles, swimming, boxing etc. and they just love to canter along with mom. I have always preferred it this way, as to me it is the most natural. In the wild mares also naturally wean off their young, so unless one is breeding I have never known why a baby should be seperated from its mom when it is still so little.